하게 vs 히 and a few other grammar questions

[holdfast]

i have a few grammar questions:

what is the difference between 하게 and 히? for example, i said to my friend 조심하게 운전하세요 and she corrected me and said it should be 조심히. what is the difference in these two conjugations?

also, i haven't found any set rule for conjugating to the 이/히 form of any verb/adjective. and the examples i've found don't seem to follow a pattern (조용히, 다행히, 많이, 깨끗이). is there a rule or pattern for this?

i am also looking for a rule about using ㅁ/음 to change a verb to a noun. again, the examples i've found don't seem to follow a pattern (도음, 죽음, 삶).

and my last question is about adding ㅅ in cases like 어젯밤. could someone please explain why the ㅅ is added and exactly when it should be added? i think this has something to do with putting two nouns together?

thanks for any help!

[javiskefka]

Those are pretty advanced questions... ^^;;

-이/-히 vs -게
I don't know of any difference in meaning.

As for 이/히, -히 is for -하다 verbs and -이 is for all the others. I'm sure that it is for linguistic and historical reasons that are beyond my abilities to understand.

ㅁ/음
This gets attached to the verb stem. If there is a 밭침, use 음.
돕다 -> 도우+ㅁ -> 도움
죽다 -> 죽+음 -> 죽음
살다 -> 살+ㅁ -> 삶 In some cases ㄹ doesn't count as a consonant

-ㅅ in 어젯밤
I don't feel confident saying anything about this, aside that it just reflects how the word would be said in the standard dialect.

[holdfast]

As for 이/히, -히 is for -하다 verbs and -이 is for all the others. I'm sure that it is for linguistic and historical reasons that are beyond my abilities to understand.

but 깨끗하다 becomes 깨끗이 unless my textbook is incorrect.

and with 삶 are there lots of other exceptions to this rule? can it be applied to any verb?

thanks for answering - it does help! i am sure someone can help with the rest (:

[manyakumi]

-하게 and -히 are the same thing.
You can say "조심하게 운전하세요" or "조심히 운전하세요" either.
Maybe the reason that your friend corrects you is -하게 -하세요 makes a repetition, i think.

and like javiskefka said,
when we make a -하다 verb into an adverb by using 히 ending.
but there is an exception that is 깨끗하다 -> 깨끗이.


Putting a ㅅ(사이시옷) is a difficult matter even if you were a native Korean.

어제 + 밤 would be 어제밤 but it sounds like 어제빰 when they became one.
and we need to distinguish 어제밤(last night) from 어제밤(yesterday nut) in a writing.
So we put a 사이시옷 between 어제 and 밤

[Sounds]

어제 + 밤 = [어제빰] -> 어젯밤
나무 + 잎 = [나문닙] -> 나뭇잎
바다 + 가 = [바다까] -> 바닷가
제사 + 날 = [제산날] -> 제삿날

You must know how each fusion words make sounds like.
then you will be able to distinguish them.



Hope this helps.

[holdfast]

hmm.. i appreciate the help, but any other takers?

[hyunwoo]

I don't know how much this way of explanation will be,
but in a nutshell, -하게 and -히 are two different type of words

And -하게 should be just -게

Because " Verb Stem + -게 " is the conjugation for making an adverb out of a verb.

예쁘다 --> 예쁘게
조용하다 --> 조용하게
어렵다 --> 어렵게




And -이 / -히 is another type of suffix that forms a part of some words, like

많이 (많다) , 열심히 (열심이다) , 조심히 (조심하다), 깨끗이 (깨끗하다)


There is no obvious rule to this,
so I think it's best to remember that -게 is the suffix to make verbs adverbs,

and some verbs are more often used in the -이/-히 form

[holdfast]

that makes sense.

i guess my real question, then, would be: what is the difference in meaning when using these two different conjugations (for lack of a better word)? for example: is there a difference in meaning between 조심하게 and 조심히? and is there a way to know when to use which one?

and i am still not sure about ㅁ/음 : is 삶 one of the only exceptions to the rule, or are there many? can you use this on any verb to make a noun?

and i understand that adding the ㅅ changes the pronunciation, but i am wondering how to know when i need to use it when i am writing.

thanks again for all your help guys!

[javiskefka]

In cases like forming adverbs with -이/-히, forming nouns with -ㅁ/-음, properly inserting a 사이시옷 where necessary, they seem somewhat obscure. It seems a better use of my time to just pay attention and memorize which words people use in practice. Because Korean is so flexible, you can express a thought in many different ways and still be grammatically correct. Don't be afraid to just practice and receive suggestions for more natural-sounding phrases.

Here are some words that I have observed with the -ㅁ/음 ending:
즐거움 (happiness), 아픔 (hurt), 슬픔 (sadness), 쉼 (breath), 춤 (dance), 어려움 (difficulty), 귀함 (nobility), 죽음 (death), 삶 (life), 잠 (sleep), 외로움 (loneliness), 꿈 (dream)

And 삶 is not an exception. It's a standard rule that verb stems with a 'ㄹ' batchim use the -ㅁ suffix. 앎 from 알다 is another example.

Here's the definition from Naver: http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=12375900

ㅁ
[접사]｛받침이 없거나 ‘ㄹ’ 받침으로 끝나는 동사, 형용사 어간 뒤에 붙어｝ 명사를 만드는 접미사.

ㅁ
[afix] {attaches behind the verb stem of action verbs or descriptive verbs that end in no batchim or with a 'ㄹ' batchim} a suffix that forms a noun.

http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=30077700

음
[접사]｛어간 말음이 ‘ㄹ’ 이외의 자음인 동사 어간 뒤에 붙어｝ 명사를 만드는 접미사.

음
[afix] {attaches behind verb stems ending in consonants except 'ㄹ'} a suffix that forms a noun.

As for 조심하게 하세요 vs 조심히 하세요, I agree with manyakumi from my observations that the suggestion was probably just made out of preference to avoid the repetition. I also mainly hear '조심히 가세요', which uses the same vowel combinations.

[holdfast]

thank you thank you!

that helps a lot! the ㅁ rule especially.

i am always asking my friend to correct me to say things more naturally, so i suppose she corrected me because that is how she would say it.

[manyakumi]

Great job, javiskefka!
There couldn't be any doubt in making a noun form with ㅁ.

and now, only ㅅ matter is remaining.
All I can say about this is,
it's not a writing had made its pronunciation but the sound of a word had ruled its form in writing.
because the words existed since their letters had not been made.