I think I know the answer, but...

[Bouks]

...could someone show me the difference in Korean between "I don't have a friend", and "My friend is not here"? (Standard politeness is fine.)

Gomapseumnida!

[austinfd]

...could someone show me the difference in Korean between "I don't have a friend", and "My friend is not here"? (Standard politeness is fine.)

Gomapseumnida!

있다/없다 does have the meaning of (non-)possession or (non-)existence, and to get around it, Korean uses a polite form of the verb when talking about a person not being somwhere 계시다 (to be)

I don't have a friend: "친구가 없어요"
My friend isn't here: "제 친구가 안계세요"

[javiskefka]

For my friend, I would use 있지 않다. It's just the negation of 있다. 계시다 would seem inappropriate to use referring to a friend.

Example:

제프는 친구가 있어요?
아니오, 친구가 없어요.

Do you have any friends, Jeff?
No, I don't have any friends.

제프 친구가 집에 있어요?
아니오, 집에 있지 않아요.

Is your friend at home, Jeff?
No, he is not at home.

[Bouks]

Hmm, not at all what I thought, but that's a good thing. Thank you for the examples.

[manyakumi]

저는 친구가 없어요.

제 친구는 여기 없어요.

[austinfd]

Hmm, not at all what I thought, but that's a good thing. Thank you for the examples.

There are usually lots of ways to say something! While there might be subtle differences in meaning and nuance they communicate the same thing. 계시다 is a formal verb, so it might not be necessary when the subject is a friend, but in almost any other circumstance, I think it is appropriate and common.

I think there is another, more subtle difference in speech levels, but I haven't figured out exactly how it works out yet. Sometimes the subject/object of the sentence could have a different politeness level than the listener...I think that is really interesting. I wish I could come up with some good examples of that, but..... my brain isn't firing on all cylinders right now! It's almost quittin time!

[Bouks]

manyakumi-ssi, thank you for the clear examples! I can almost even read them without referring to my hangeul chart, too

Austin, that is interesting about the politeness levels. I think that it would be good to have a class that talks especially about politeness levels (culture class?). I was just going over the beginner lesson where Steve was using formal politeness level to sort of "intimidate" his ex-girlfriend's date (#11, I think). Examples like that could be taken from all the lessons and compiled into a politeness level reference.

Actually, this subject might just be complex enough to have its own series. What do you think? Maybe we should make a suggestion.

[austinfd]

manyakumi-ssi, thank you for the clear examples! I can almost even read them without referring to my hangeul chart, too

Austin, that is interesting about the politeness levels. I think that it would be good to have a class that talks especially about politeness levels (culture class?). I was just going over the beginner lesson where Steve was using formal politeness level to sort of "intimidate" his ex-girlfriend's date (#11, I think). Examples like that could be taken from all the lessons and compiled into a politeness level reference.

Actually, this subject might just be complex enough to have its own series. What do you think? Maybe we should make a suggestion.

There already is a lesson on it. I'm not sure of the number though. Anyway, what I'm talking about is a a really specific instance, and relatively complex.... and I might be completely wrong, I'm just gong on what I *think* from the things I hear.

I can get in to trouble that way sometimes!

[manyakumi]

있다/없다 does have the meaning of (non-)possession or (non-)existence, and to get around it, Korean uses a polite form of the verb when talking about a person not being somwhere 계시다 (to be)

I don't have a friend: "친구가 없어요"
My friend isn't here: "제 친구가 안계세요"

Austin, you'd better not to speak like that. (2nd sentence)
The listener suppose to be a higher level than you and your friend on that conversation,
you can't raise the objective person's politeness level more than the listener.
On that case, the subject of 있다/계시다 verb is your friend so if you raise him up to 계시다 level, then the listener who is on higher level than your friend might feel bad for your words.

It's little bit difficult thing, isn't it?

[austinfd]

있다/없다 does have the meaning of (non-)possession or (non-)existence, and to get around it, Korean uses a polite form of the verb when talking about a person not being somwhere 계시다 (to be)

I don't have a friend: "친구가 없어요"
My friend isn't here: "제 친구가 안계세요"

Austin, you'd better not to speak like that. (2nd sentence)
The listener suppose to be a higher level than you and your friend on that conversation,
you can't raise the objective person's politeness level more than the listener.
On that case, the subject of 있다/계시다 verb is your friend so if you raise him up to 계시다 level, then the listener who is on higher level than your friend might feel bad for your words.

It's little bit difficult thing, isn't it?

Interesting... this is kind of what I was talking about with the different speech levels within sentences... But sometimes the suject/object of the sentence is a higher level than the listener: Say two kids are talking about the principal of their school... do they use 교장선생님게서 and the rest of sentence in intimate form?

난 교장선생님게서 숙제 절 한대

Certainly the kid doesn't have to make the whole sentence in 존댓말 for his classmate just because he is talking about the principal?

[manyakumi]

In that case, the listener(speaker's friend) is lower than 교장선생님 and the speaker has to raise the politeness level of the objective person's action.

난 교장선생님께서 숙제를 잘 한대. (O)
난 교장선생님께서 숙제를 잘 하신대. (X)

In the 2nd sentence, the person who does his homework is the speaker, not 교장선생님.

교장선생님께서 너를 데려 오라고 하셨어. (O)
교장선생님께서 너를 데려 오시라고 하셨어. (X)

The person who bring the listener is the speaker, the politeness level of 데려 오다 verb was not raised but only -라고 하다 verb was raised.

교장선생님께서 책을 읽고 계시다. (O)
교장선생님께서 책을 읽으시고 계시다. (X)

This is the case you've mentioned.
There are two verbs linked, then you should raise the level only a verb end of the sentence.

[steved]

I also like manyakui's example of:

저는 친구가 없어요.

제 친구는 여기 없어요.

Not to confuse things but just for fun... you could also say:

여기는 친구가 없어요. (I don't have any friends here and implying that I do have friends elsewhere.)

The use of subject/topic particles becomes very important and if dropped then everything becomes implied and can become confusing.

[manyakumi]

Steved, you're also right.

You are very good at Korean in detail.
Sometimes you make me considering you as a Korean!

[austinfd]

Mayakumi..thanks for those examples. I shouldn't have complicated those examples with reported speech.. it makes it a lot trickier!

Just to have a little more fun....I've got a real-world example from today. One of the teachers in my office called up to a different classroom. She was trying to tell the teacher something, but a student must have answered the phone....

"선생님 안계셨니?" (I'm hoping I spelled it right...I'm tempted to write in the present...안계시니....but my ears seem remember it being conjugated in the past tense)

Just goes to show that the verb sometimes on the object, not necessarily the listener.