Korean grammar questions~~

[tonygr]

A few people are creating single post to relay all of their questions which has been very helpful to me also. I thought I'd do the same~

I have a few questions that's been drilling at me for a long time.
I understand the meaning of the sentences but I'm unsure of the grammatical positions of some of the phrases that I've seen.

Can someone help me out here?

Question 1:
밥을 먹는 사람 - A person who eats rice.
밥을 먹어 이는 사람 - A person who is eating rice.
밥을 먹어 있다는 사람 - A person who is eating rice. (??) - I don't understand why "~다~"

Question 2:
This is similar to Question 1.
~그러면 vs. ~그러다면
~있으면 vs. ~있다면
What is the difference? Emphasis?

Question 3:
I read this sentence in one of my Korean language textbooks:
"현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명이 넘는다. "

I understand the sentence but how is this different from:
현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명이 넘다.

Finally, Question 4:
My Korean penpal said to me:
우선 좋은 소식부터 전할게. 뭐냐면 말이지!!!

However, I do not understand "뭐냐면" at all which in turn causes me to not understand the second sentence at all. I asked her for an explanation but it was difficult for her to do so.


EDIT: If there are some existing posts or KC101 lesson out there please forward the links to me. I try not to create duplicate posts so I apologize in advance if I'm asking questions that's been answered already. I searched myself, but couldn't find any relevant. Thanks all.

[manyakumi]

Question 1:
밥을 먹는 사람 - A person who eats rice.
밥을 먹어 이는 사람 - A person who is eating rice.
밥을 먹어 있다는 사람 - A person who is eating rice. (??) - I don't understand why "~다~"

밥을 먹는 사람 - A person who eats rice.
밥을 먹고 있는 사람 - A person who is eating rice.
밥을 먹고 있다는 사람 - A person who is said to be eating rice.

You may know this as below.
"밥을 먹고 있다"는 사람

Question 2:
~그러면 vs. ~그러다면
~있으면 vs. ~있다면
What is the difference? Emphasis?

그러면(그러하면) / 그렇다면
있으면 / 있다면(있다고 한다면)

Same rule as above.

Question 3:
I read this sentence in one of my Korean language textbooks:
"현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명이 넘는다. "

I understand the sentence but how is this different from:
현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명이 넘다.

현재 - 넘는다
This explains a normal information about the conditions or situations.

현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명이 넘다.
would be kind of weird because 넘다 is an action verb.
It sounds like...
나는 너를 좋다. or 나는 꽃이 좋아한다. (weird, huh?)

It should be as below
현재 서울에 살고 있는 사람이 천만 명을 넘다.(넘었다)

And this tells us the right moment that something is happening.

Finally, Question 4:
My Korean penpal said to me:
우선 좋은 소식부터 전할게. 뭐냐면 말이지!!!

However, I do not understand "뭐냐면" at all which in turn causes me to not understand the second sentence at all. I asked her for an explanation but it was difficult for her to do so.

뭐냐면 - 뭐냐하면 - 무엇이냐 하면 - 무엇이냐(고) (말)하면

It means...
"뭐냐?" 라고 (네가) 하면 : if you say "what is that?" then..
말이지 is just a filler meaning "It's the word" literally, and it really means "I'll say".

So,
뭐냐면 말이지...
It's like "You know what" in English.



Hope this helps.

[tonygr]

manyakumi,
I can't thank you enough for your help. I studied your comments and entirely grasped what you told me. Thanks a bunch!

Here are some other questions.

I've seen these types of grammar usages in several occasions, but never properly learned the meanings behind them. These sentences were used between myself and the same Korean penpal I mentioned in my last mail.

1. 시간을 보내기보다 보다 자주 밖에 나가는 게 되겠네요.
I know the meaning behind "보다" (in this situation) but why is it used twice?

서로에 대해 보다 더 이야기하면
Actually, to me, this sentence looks better and seems more understandable without the "보다". Is it necessary? If so, for what purpose?

2. 누가 아나요 뭐.
그렇게 생긴건 그렇게 생긴거죠 뭐
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I asked someone for help regarding why is "뭐" used at the end of a sentence in a non-question. I've had the run-around for several months with no definite answer. Can someone please shed some light on this usage?

3. 좋긴 좋아
Here's another that I've had a lot of run around with. This is one of those things where I understand but not completely. Any explanation would be helpful. If I understand correctly, it mean "It's good but not all that great." Kind of like "좋지만 별로 안 좋아." Is this correct?

4. 제가 하듯이 하지는 못 한다.
The problem lies in "~듯이". When I read this sentence it reads something like, "You can't do what I can do." or "You can't do it like me." If I'm correct, are "~듯이" and "~는 대로" similar?

[manyakumi]

manyakumi,
I can't thank you enough for your help. I studied your comments and entirely grasped what you told me. Thanks a bunch!

You're welcome.
It was my pleasure.

1. 시간을 보내기보다 보다 자주 밖에 나가는 게 되겠네요.
I know the meaning behind "보다" (in this situation) but why is it used twice?

I don't know as well. XD
It doesn't seem to be necessary.

서로에 대해 보다 더 이야기하면
Actually, to me, this sentence looks better and seems more understandable without the "보다". Is it necessary? If so, for what purpose?

It means (지금)보다 or (이제까지)보다.
(more than it's been so far.)
Kind of an emphasized expression.
더 < 더욱 더, 보다 더

2. 누가 아나요 뭐.
그렇게 생긴건 그렇게 생긴거죠 뭐
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I asked someone for help regarding why is "뭐" used at the end of a sentence in a non-question. I've had the run-around for several months with no definite answer. Can someone please shed some light on this usage?

I think it means "or what?" used for emphasizing.
누가 아나요 뭐 (때문인지...) : because of what
그렇게 생긴건 그렇게 생긴거죠 뭐 (어쩌겠어요?) : there's nothing I can do for it

3. 좋긴 좋아
Here's another that I've had a lot of run around with. This is one of those things where I understand but not completely. Any explanation would be helpful. If I understand correctly, it mean "It's good but not all that great." Kind of like "좋지만 별로 안 좋아." Is this correct?

I'm afraid to say it's not correct.
It's a short for 좋기는 좋아 and it means 'it is good as I(we) know' or 'it is really good but...(I don't like it)'
The basic concept is..'in the view of quality, it's good'

4. 제가 하듯이 하지는 못 한다.
The problem lies in "~듯이". When I read this sentence it reads something like, "You can't do what I can do." or "You can't do it like me." If I'm correct, are "~듯이" and "~는 대로" similar?

Yes. it's similar with -는대로, -는것처럼


Hope this helps you again.

[tonygr]

1. 시간을 보내기보다 보다 자주 밖에 나가는 게 되겠네요.
I know the meaning behind "보다" (in this situation) but why is it used twice?

I don't know as well. XD
It doesn't seem to be necessary.

서로에 대해 보다 더 이야기하면
Actually, to me, this sentence looks better and seems more understandable without the "보다". Is it necessary? If so, for what purpose?

It means (지금)보다 or (이제까지)보다.
(more than it's been so far.)
Kind of an emphasized expression.
더 < 더욱 더, 보다 더

I'm curious.
Is it possible that the second 보다 in the first sentence is the same as 보다 더 as you explained in the second sentence, except with "더" excluded?

[manyakumi]

Yes, they are the same.
And the first sentence is not technically wrong,
but not so good as well. (two comparisons at the same time)
You should not better use like that

[tonygr]

I'm studying the grammar points of a poem (by the instructions of my Korean teacher), and there are some grammar points I've never seen and don't understand.

푸르른날은

눈이 부시게 푸르른 날은
그리운 사람을 그리워 하자

저기 저기 저, 가을 꽃 자리 - "First question: What is the meaning of 자리?"
초록이 지쳐 단풍 드는데

눈이 나리면 어이 하리야 - "Last question: What is the meaning of 하리야? My research shows that it is similar to 해야하다 but I want to confirm. Is this correct?"
봄이 또 오면 어이 하리야

내가 죽고서 네가 산다면
네가 죽고서 내가 산다면

[trutherous]

Hi tony,

Fellow student here. It will be interesting to hear the input of native Koreans on your excellent questions. I am absolutely terrible at grammar but I speak Korean with some fluency. I will offer some input for the sake of mutual learning, noting that translating prose always presents a unique set of complications because of cultural nuance and artistic use of language.

저기 저기 저, 가을 꽃 자리 - "First question: What is the meaning of 자리?"
초록이 지쳐 단풍 드는데

Here I read 자리 as place or position, my poor translation of this would be:

'There, where those fall flowers abide,
Weary of green, the autumn leaves are turning.'



눈이 나리면 어이 하리야 - "Last question: What is the meaning of 하리야? My research shows that it is similar to 해야하다 but I want to confirm. Is this correct?"
봄이 또 오면 어이 하리야

Your definition seems almost reasonable, I think taken as a whole "어이 하리야" in this usage the phrase is very similar to 어찌하다, and conveys the idea 'what can be done/ there's nothing can be done/ inevitable'

I know of a similar usage in the song 왜 아니올까 (김중순 작사) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hHCJCz4FHA perhaps one of the most beautiful sad love songs ever, note the line ''나는 나는 나는 어이하라고''

BTW - if you don't know the singer 김추자 on the youtube link you are missing something worthwhile. Her 20 greatest hits CD and the accompanying lyrics make for a nice study.

Oh yeah, a study in the most widely used Korean bible (antiquated language) can also help familiarize you with many of those poetic verb forms that are seldom used in everyday conversation.

[manyakumi]

Thank you George, for the wonderful explanation.
I'm here with some explanations and examples.

Your definition seems almost reasonable, I think taken as a whole "어이 하리야" in this usage the phrase is very similar to 어찌하다, and conveys the idea 'what can be done/ there's nothing can be done/ inevitable'

I know of a similar usage in the song 왜 아니올까 (김중순 작사) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hHCJCz4FHA perhaps one of the most beautiful sad love songs ever, note the line ''나는 나는 나는 어이하라고''

어이 하리야 has the same meaning with 어찌 할까요, basically.

어이 is the old form of 어찌.
하리야 came from the verb 하다, as you know...
And it seems that 리야 is a poetic transformation of the ending 리오.
리오 is a polite form of 리 which is an ending used for self-question or declaration.
You could see this form more in poetry and songs than in daily conversations nowadays.

내가 하리?
Shall I do it?

모두 다 사랑하리.
I will love them all.

하 + 리오
나 그대를 사랑하리오.
나 그대를 사랑하리다.
I will love you. (in kinda old nuance, Romeo and Juliet for example)