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Hanja in the PDF's

Would you like Hanja (Chinese characters) included in the PDF's?

Yes.
43
86%
No.
5
10%
No preference.
2
4%
 
Total votes: 50

Keith
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Hanja in the PDF's

Postby Keith » December 3rd, 2007 2:19 am

Auntie 씨 suggested that we have Hanja in the PDF's.

Hanja is Chinese characters used in Korea. However, in recent years, it's been slowly fading out of use. I myself wouldn't be able to include hanja in PDF, simply because I don't know any!

But just out of curiosity, by a show of hands (or votes ;)), who would like to have Hanja included in PDF's? If you are not familiar with Japanese or Korean, would you study and/or look at the Hanja?
Last edited by Keith on December 3rd, 2007 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

auntie68
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Postby auntie68 » December 3rd, 2007 3:22 am

Hello, this is Auntie.

Just so that my suggestion doesn't sound too scary:

I think we can probably get away with not even thinking about the hanja for pure Korean words (for students of Japanese, that's the 訓読み reading).javascript:emoticon(':D')

But it would be huge help if KoreanClass101 could find some simple way to provide the Chinese characters for genuine Sino-Korean words which have truly become a part of the "normal" Korean vocabulary. Meaning, those with the 音読み reading. These are the characters where it is possible to make an educated guess about their normal, Korean reading or meaning, based on the actual sound of Chinese characters.

For me personally, all I think I need is the hanja characters appearing discreetly somewhere in the vocab section, perhaps in brackets (with no explanation!) next to the hangul entry.

Anything more would seem to be "overkill" as I do get the sense that in Korea, hanja is so rarely written, so mere recognition is probably enough (IMveryHO). Even though young Koreans may insist that they can't really read hanja, I still get the feeling that many of them (you?) do still use the Chinese characters to help distinguish between the many homonyms that occur in any language with significant borrowings from Chinese.

Oh well, that's my pitch!

Thank you everybody, once again! Please please support this request!

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auntie68
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Postby auntie68 » December 3rd, 2007 3:29 am

P/s: Just in case you think you need a bit of background in order to get a handle on the "hanja"/"no hanja" issue, here is a very useful link:

http://www.learnkorean.com/whanja/hclassindex.asp

I like it because it has example sentences (do pls scroll down) where you can actually see how the hanja would appear in a sentence full of hangul.

Please, it's not such a a huge task, I hear that only 500 hanja are actually in use these days, and most of them are very VERY familiar to Korean speakers who may be using them daily without knowing that they are based on Chinese characters.

Allora,

Auntie

Ulver_684
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Postby Ulver_684 » December 3rd, 2007 3:52 am

auntie68 wrote:P/s: Just in case you think you need a bit of background in order to get a handle on the "hanja"/"no hanja" issue, here is a very useful link:

http://www.learnkorean.com/whanja/hclassindex.asp

I like it because it has example sentences (do pls scroll down) where you can actually see how the hanja would appear in a sentence full of hangul.

Please, it's not such a a huge task, I hear that only 500 hanja are actually in use these days, and most of them are very VERY familiar to Korean speakers who may be using them daily without knowing that they are based on Chinese characters.

Allora,

Auntie


Auntie! :wink:

Thank you for that great link, I definitive support your idea ok! 8)

maxiewawa
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Postby maxiewawa » December 3rd, 2007 8:44 am

One more for 汉字!

I find 汉字 very useful, much more useful than Romanisation of Hangeul. I think that if you include Romanised words as a 'crutch' 汉字 should be included too!

steved
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Postby steved » December 12th, 2007 6:18 pm

I don't think Korea uses the simplified 漢字. Having it in the PDF would be great though.
Edit: Sounds like I meant simplified; I mean regular 漢字.
Last edited by steved on December 12th, 2007 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Taliana
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Postby Taliana » December 12th, 2007 8:02 pm

I'd love for hanja to be included in the PDFs - I would, actually, like to learn it properly including stroke-order (I'm assuming that stroke-order for hanja is as important as stroke-order for Japanese kanji anyway).

Although the use of hanja is slowly fading out, I still think that it's something pretty important to learn. Just because it's fading out in recent years doesn't mean that you'll never need to know it, afterall.

So yeah, I just think that it's really something worth learning, but if it would be too complicated to set up something here to teach us, then I think that it would be nice at least to have the hanja for certain things in the PDFs.

auntie68
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Postby auntie68 » December 13th, 2007 12:15 am

Yay, two more votes for Hanja!

Here's an example of Hanja, for the undecided voters:

外國[외국] a foreign state
內外[내외] inside and outside; husband and wife
外交[외교] diplomacy

Please vote! This thread is slightly "buried" in the BB, I hope that Captain Keith will do a nice Culture Class on the topic so that more people are aware that Hanja even exists.

All the best,
Auntie

auntie68
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Postby auntie68 » December 13th, 2007 12:21 am

Hmm... before the Board Admin bans me for cluttering up the BB, why not also:

牛乳 [우유] cow's milk
牛耳讀經 [우이독경] "Read classics into a cow's ear." [=vain effort]
韓牛 [한우] Korean (local) cows/beef

while we are at it.

Cheers,
Auntie

Ulver_684
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Postby Ulver_684 » December 13th, 2007 2:46 am

auntie68 wrote:Hmm... before the Board Admin bans me for cluttering up the BB, why not also:

牛乳 [우유] cow's milk
牛耳讀經 [우이독경] "Read classics into a cow's ear." [=vain effort]
韓牛 [한우] Korean (local) cows/beef

while we are at it.

Cheers,
Auntie


Auntie68! :wink:

You have a nice sense of humor so I add you to my flaming moe list ok! 8)

Keith
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Postby Keith » December 13th, 2007 3:43 am

Auntie and those interested in Hanja!

We have discussed it internally, and we agree that it would be a great help for learners! Not necessarily the actual Hanja, but the sounds associated with a syllable (which does have a corresponding Hanja). So thank you Auntie for that great suggestion!

I think it would be prudent to include these words in upper level lessons. Because that is when it actually starts making sense to learners of Korean. But we won't be including these in the beginner lessons, or newbie lessons, which can create confusion.

There's a certain point at which this "clicks." And this should definitely speed up that process :)

maxiewawa
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Postby maxiewawa » December 13th, 2007 9:10 am

I think the actual 漢字, as Auntie listed above would be better. For people who speak/read Chinese (Japanese too!) the actual 漢字 are a big help to just understanding the text.

steved
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Postby steved » December 13th, 2007 5:28 pm

I agree that having the actual 漢字 would be a big benefit even if it were just an aside ("Newbies: look at this at your own risk!").
Anyone visiting Korea will not be able to avoid seeing 漢字. It appears on signs and buildings everywhere, sometimes with subscript 한글 and many times without:
現代
東亞
京南
(OK, so they are all names of apartment buildings but that is the best I can do off the top of my head.)

Maybe we should move this into another forum...

maxiewawa
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Postby maxiewawa » December 13th, 2007 11:11 pm

:D

What a coincidence, I live 2 blocks away from 南京 road in 上海!

Auntie and I aren't looking for 漢字 as a way to make Korean more difficult but more easy. For people who read 漢字 already, they would be a big help to remembering the words. Since they already exist for many words, they would be a shame to leave out completely.

I learned a new word the other day which I wouldn't have learned if it weren't for 漢字. I could have said 층=层, and even sounds similar to the Chinese 'ceng' and means the same thing but I definitely wouldn't have picked up on this unless I had the little 漢字 next to it reminding me.

Instead of a "Newbies Look Away!" we are looking for a "Newbies Who Don't Read Chinese Look Away" section.

Or maybe a disclaimer on the bottom of the PDF: "This section is intended as a learning aid for Chinese and Japanese reading persons only. 漢字 are no longer used in this way on the Korean peninsula. In case of emergency consult a 즌 - 한 dictionary. This announcement was funded by the Friends Of Korean Hanja Alliance."

Keith
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Postby Keith » December 14th, 2007 1:18 am

oh we will include the Hanja as well :) But I don't think there's so many people that have previously knowledge of Hanja on our website. I suspect the majority of our listeners don't have any background in Hanja, unless it was studied from either Chinese or Japanese.

However, we will include the actual Hanja, but will the Hanja will not be focus of these PDF's. I believe the way to learn Hanja, as a Korean learner, is to learn it via the sounds. And the Hanja would be a bonus for those that have a knowledge of Chinese characters. But as a Korean Learner, we believe that the focus should be through the sounds.

So I think with this, everyone wins! :D If you have any other requests in regards to this, please speak now! As we are in the process of making this a reality! ;)

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